We live in a digital world. Texts, tweets and typing is the language of today. However, not too long ago, it was the telephone that provided our main method of communication. Today we sit down with Gregg Johnson, CEO of Invoca, to discuss the changing landscape of business communication and how the phone call continues to be a vital part of the customer experience—now more than ever.
As the Chief Executive Officer of Invoca, Gregg connects phone calls and human conversations to the digital journey. The data his team collects drives revenue and ultimately makes customers happy. Gregg has looked at the numbers and despite what you may believe about the slow departure of the phone call, the numbers show that this perspective strays pretty far from what customers actually want.
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Man: Welcome to “Gain Your Edge,” the podcast created for IT professionals, business owners, and leaders looking to sharpen their edge over the competition. Our ever perceptive host Skip Lineberg introduces you to industry thought leaders. Listen and learn from their insights as Skip gets inside the minds of our guest gurus revealing new ideas, opportunities, and insightful updates for you. It’s all sponsored by Frontier, your edge in success. Now, here’s our host, Skip Lineberg.
Skip: Welcome to another exciting episode of “Gain Your Edge,” your twice a month podcast on all things IT. I’m your host, Skip Lineberg, Senior Marketing Manager with Frontier Communications. Our goal with “Gain Your Edge” podcast is always to help you gain a competitive edge for your business. This is episode 40 of “Gain Your Edge,” and I’m so glad that you’ve joined us today. We’re gonna be discussing the fascinating topics of artificial intelligence and voice recognition.
In a world that’s overwhelmingly digital, it’s easy to dismiss telephone conversations as a vestige of the past. It’s easy to imagine that future generations will marvel that people in the early 2000s like you and I actually spoke to one another via telephone conversations, as opposed to clicking, texting, or instant messaging. It’s really easy to hold those perspectives, but according to the numbers, those perspectives stray pretty far from what customers actually want. Let me read to you this excerpt from an article.
It’s written today by Gregg Johnson, who is going to be our guest. Joining us in just a moment. This is an excerpt from the article from “Harvard Business Review” published July 26th, 2017. Here’s what I wanna share with you. This quote, “Voice is central to communication and because it’s not strictly an online channel, it presents a challenge for brands that treat digital transformation as a matter of generating clicks and website views, and while it’s possible to track every step of a customer’s online journey, the trail ends as soon as an individual walks into a store or picks up the phone. If creating a better customer experience and optimizing marketing means understanding customers and anticipating their needs. This disappearing act is a real problem. It means companies lack visibility into conversations that collectively generate more than $1 trillion of commerce.”
That’s the background and the context for our show today. I can’t wait to introduce you to our guest, so joining us today is Gregg Johnson, CEO of Invoca, a company that connects phone calls and human conversations to the digital journey, judging by their data. This drives revenue and makes customers happy. Hey, good afternoon, Gregg. Thanks so much for joining us on the show today.
Gregg: Great. Thank you Skip. It’s a pleasure to be here. And thanks to you and Frontier for having us.
Skip: Well, Gregg, when I saw your Harvard Business Review article and read it, it was such an eye-opener and such a breath of fresh air for me, and it had some insights that really fly in the face of the things that I was seeing and believing, so I’m anxious to get into that with you today. Not only for the benefit of myself, but of course our listeners as well. I read an excerpt of it in the show intro and this article that you wrote was published in July in “Harvard Business Review,” the title, “Your Customer Still Want To Talk To a Human Being.”
To those out there in podcast land, our listeners, if you haven’t seen this yet, press pause now. Go into the show notes, get the hyperlink and go read that article. It’s a database revelation in this digital world of ours.
Gregg, what prompted you to write that article?
Gregg: Sure. So The “Harvard Business Review” was doing a series on digital transformation, and prior to joining the company I’m at now, Invoca, I worked at Salesforce for a number of years and in the last few spent a lot of time with businesses and companies that were going digital. And so the ideas and the motivations of the importance of digital transformation are very close to my heart, but in the time I’ve spent in Invoca in working with many of our customers, one of the things that struck me was that, you know, voice interactions contrary to popular opinion continue to become more important day by day. And really, there are two reasons behind that. Number one is if you think about where we consume information and get information today, that has really shifted where a lot of the things that we’re reading, a lot of the things that we’re learning about we’re doing on our phones, and so it’s easier than ever to click to call a person or a business if you want to learn more.
And so the ease with which you can have a conversation with another human being, via mobile devices has really never been easier. The other thing that’s really interesting is you’re seeing this rise of digital voice assistants like Alexa and Echo devices, Siri, Google Home, Cortana. And so I just think overall voice is becoming a very critical part of how companies and brands interact with consumers. And it’s kind of gotten lost in the shuffle of all this focus on digital transformation. And so when we saw this series that the “Harvard Business Review” was running, we felt like it would be an interesting opportunity to kind of tie in how voice is also becoming an important part of the customer experience and how it ties in with what companies are doing with their digital transformation initiatives as well.
Skip: Well, brilliant article. My compliments on it. Like I said, when I read it, immediately awakened me up, opened my eyes to certain things that I needed to start thinking about. Gregg, before we go further into the article if you would tell us a little bit about Invoca. I know you’re a global company based in California. Tell us…give us a little color on Invoca as a corporation?
Gregg: Sure. So Invoca’s…we’re an enterprise software company. We were founded in 2008 and headquartered down in beautiful Santa Barbara down in southern California.
Skip: Boy it is beautiful.
Gregg: It is. The nickname of Santa Barbara, is the American Riviera. It’s an absolutely beautiful place and we at Invoca, the core of our business is we really helped other brands and advertisers and companies connect with customers using the power of voice. So specifically if you have a customer and you’re on a business website where you’re engaging with something that you see about a business through Google paid search or on Facebook. And if you get to a point where you want to talk to a human being, we make that process seamless and efficient. So when you pick up the phone and you have a conversation, the person on the other end understands what you’ve been looking at, what you might be interested in as opposed to traditionally whenever you’d pick up the phone and have a conversation with the business. It’s basically like starting over again from scratch. I think all of us have experienced the frustration of having to repeat information. Re-identify yourself. And…
Skip: That is frustrating, Gregg. I agree. We want the companies that we want to do business with to be smarter. Don’t we?
Gregg: Completely, completely so.
Skip: Back to the article. There was a phrase in there that you wrote about that I’d like you to just expand on a little bit. You wrote in there about the digital disappearing act. Could you explain that, that whole phenomenon and share your insight about that with our listeners?
Skip: Yeah, so if you’re a business… Typically businesses fall into two different categories when they’re interacting with customers. Some businesses have goods that are relatively straightforward, relatively inexpensive, and with those types of goods you might discover them online, learn about them online and you purchase them online. So I think about if you go out looking for some clothes, you know, a the-shirt, new dress shirt, pair of jeans, you’re gonna tend to discover that digitally and then you buy that good digitally. And so everything happens in the end in the digital world. But if you’re in some other categories where the goods are more complex or they’re more emotional and they’re more expensive, a lot of times people want to talk to a human being for advice and consultation before they make that purchase decision.
And the challenge you have then is that you might learn about that good or service in the digital world, read about it, start to understand about it, but then the moment that you wanna have a conversation with an expert to kind of really take you through that last mile, and you move over into the voice world or you might go into a store, that’s when the digital disappearing act happens because you’ve gone from the digital world into the offline world, and it’s really hard for the business to understand where you’ve come from and how to continue that relationship. And so that’s kind of the gap that we see often happening and we’re focused on trying to help brands address.
Skip: Yeah. Great. Thank you for explaining that to us. And again, I encourage every one of our listeners to read that article. The link will be posted in our show notes. In the article, you cite a lot of great data, but one stat I found especially compelling was from a study conducted by your company. It states that of more than 2,000 adults surveyed, 33% of Smartphone owners reported using their device or their phone to make calls to businesses, friends and family more than five times a day. So in this world where we perceive that we’re having fewer voice conversations and we’re using our telephone less, we’re using the data part of the device more. This sort of really contrasts that. The study also said that 20% said they regularly use their phones this much for emailing and updating social media. So based on those numbers, people are still making phone calls, aren’t they?
Gregg: Yeah, you know, they are. I would say the dynamics of how people are using their phones are changing. You know, if you look back 20 years ago, really the only way you had to communicate immediately was via voice. You had no other options and, you know, technology has evolved now and we have all these other options like messaging apps, texting, email, and those are really interesting because they’re asynchronous in the sense that, you know, I send communication to you at the time of my convenience and you responded back to me at the time of your convenience, and I don’t have to wait around on you and you don’t have to wait around on me. In some situations that works really, really well, but in other situations, you want an answer and you want it now. And I think we all realize, especially, you know, I have a couple kids. We all realize that we are very instant gratification in the world today. The world trains us to be that way.
Gregg: So a lot of times when you want something, you want it now or if it’s a complicated topic and there’s a lot of back and forth; voice is just a much more efficient way to get that information. I think on average, humans generally speak between 95 and 110 words a minute. An average human only types about 45 or 50 words per minute and that’s on a full laptop, not talking about one of the tiny phone screens when you’re trying to type out a message, [inaudible 00:10:36]. So if you had a lot of information to share in real time that’s pressing and it’s urgent, voice is a super effective medium for doing that. And so I think just the nature of how people are using their phones is evolving, and people are using voice for things that they’re truly good at and then when you have things that are less pressing or can be asynchronous, well, now you have more options than you did 20 years ago, and I think that’s the real difference is people have more options than they did in the past.
Skip: And so Gregg, what does that mean for businesses who wanna meet their customers where they are and meet them in a comfortable way?
Gregg: Well, here’s how I think about it, back to that comment around instant gratification. In the instant gratification world, I think the question for a business is when somebody wants instant gratification that relates to a product or service that you offer, do you wanna be there ready to help them take care of that? And so, you know, I think about myself, for example, I bought my first home a couple years ago and I’m a very technology savvy guy, and so I went through the process, when I needed a mortgage, you know, I looked at a bunch of bank websites, I did a bunch of research. I tried to understand what products I needed, I even went to LendingTree and submitted a quote request. This is a huge decision for me and my family and before I signed on the dotted line with the bank, I wanted to talk with a loan agent and expert and ask them questions about, you know, do I get a 30 year fixed loan or do I get a seven-year adjustable, you know, do I lock my rate today or do I wait another couple days?
What’s the risk of whether I’m gonna be able to close my house? It was a super stressful decision and I wanted help because I knew if I got it wrong and I walked out on my dream house that my wife and I wanted, it’s gonna be the deal. And so you know, as a bank, as a lender, as a business, the question for them was do you wanna be available and ready through the communication channel of the choosing of your consumer and be there in that moment of instant gratification? When I was buying my house, that lender went the extra mile to spend time with me on the phone to help reassure me, help inform me, and that extra touch may not be important if you’re selling jeans or t-shirts or things like that, that are relatively straight forward, but if you sell insurance or in the business of healthcare, telecommunications, or travel or cruises, or business services, that expert advice and personal touch, that can be what makes or breaks the sale. And so I think that’s where being there and being available with the channel of choice for your customers is really critical.
Skip: Sure. I think Gregg, branching off of that. I’ve been on a research journey, I’ve spent a lot of time online researching and I’m just about ready to buy, but I’ve either got a concern or a key question that I need answered. If I could get that answer right now or get that concern resolved right now, I’m in a buying posture and I would go ahead and act on that. If a company, if a service provider or a product provider could take care of me right now, and your company helps those companies do that, right?
Gregg: Yeah, and that’s exactly what we do. What we generally find is when people go through the process of learning about items online. It takes multiple touches, multiple engagements for them to get to the point where they wanna buy. If they’re not in a hurry, that’s okay, but when you have someone who’s motivated and when you have somebody who’s ready to purchase, if you can have that live conversation, it accelerates that entire portion of the customer journey and you’re able to process that information that much faster. And so generally what a lot of our customers find with this considered purchase industries is that when you get someone on the phone, your ability to help them and close business with them and drive revenue to your business goes up significantly.
Skip: Well, that makes a lot of sense. And again, opening eyes and reforming perceptions about this whole digital world. I think marketers like myself have thought that we’re going all in on digital and it’s an either or between digital and voice, and what I’m learning from you in the article that I read, and our conversation is that it’s a strategic combination of both. That’s the most effective way to do business nowadays.
Gregg: Yeah, I completely agree. I think really great brands are responsive to what their customers need, and frankly also let the data give them the answers. And so we had a customer that we worked with several years ago and they were originally focused on digital conversion. But, you know, this individual was a marketer and he was a very data-driven person. So he just started running a bunch of A/B test, and what he found over time was that the more he exposed the ability to call in and convert through phones, it converted at higher rates and generated higher sales revenue. And so that changed his marketing strategy, and we just let the data give him the answer rather than trying to make it a philosophical argument.
Skip: Oh, I love it. I love it. What a great story. We’re gonna pause right here for just a short break as we hear from our show sponsor Frontier Business. When we come back, we’ll be discussing artificial intelligence. Find out if it’s a potential fit for your business today or in the near future. Don’t go anywhere, you won’t wanna miss a single minute of this fascinating conversation.
Man: The best edge in business is inspiration, if you’re inspired by this podcast and today’s topic. Frontier is ready to help you put that inspiration into action. For a free consultation and to learn more about communication solutions that give your business an edge over the competition, call us at 888-200-0603, that’s 888-200-0603, or send an email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Frontier, the edge you need to succeed. Now back to the podcast.
Skip: Welcome back to “Gain Your Edge.” We’re discussing the power of voice in business today. Our guest is Gregg Johnson CEO of Invoca. Gregg, you mentioned in the article the convenience of the digital selling journey in terms of tracking customer behavior, and you mentioned that when phone calls get involved that typically becomes much harder. Is there a solution for that?
Gregg: Yeah. I mean, that’s the core of the business that we focus on at Invoca is really bridging that transition to the consumer who is from the digital world to the world of voice, and then making that consumer experience from the data that goes along with it a lot more seamless. I’ll pick up on an example that I mentioned earlier tonight was buying a house. Then when I call up the bank after clicking on a Google paid search ad for a 30-year mortgage, and I spent time on the landing page tinkering with mortgage calculator for a 30-year mortgage. The loan agent who picks up the phone should know that I’m interested in a 30-year mortgage. And if they start asking, you know, do I want an auto loan, or an insurance policy, or a checking account, or a mortgage, you know, that’s frustrating from a customer experience perspective. And so…
Skip: And you’re shaking your head, right? I was just shaking my head in empathy for you. Like, “Oh, they should know that. They should know that.”
Gregg: Exactly. So trying to connect that data and connect that experience, so that you not only understand how to optimize your digital experience but you understand how to optimize your voice experiences at the core of what we do, which helps people just be a lot smarter about how they spend money with Facebook and Google and all the other digital advertising platforms that are out there today.
Skip: Yeah, you know, in my show prep Gregg I also learned something about Invoca where for your companies that you serve, when a customer calls in you provide the visibility and intelligence for the customer agent on the other end of the call to know that that person calling in has an open shopping cart, and they have an item in the shopping cart, so they’re really positioned to buy something. And I thought that was brilliant. So kudos on that.
Gregg: That was something the customers drove us to do through the collaborations. So it’s always gonna be customer focused. You never know where customers are at the end of the day.
Skip: Absolutely. Gregg, let’s shift our focus a bit more now to artificial intelligence or AI, and in the article and early in our conversation we touched on some AI services like Siri, Alexa, and Google assistant; in the world of voice-based customer communication. In that context, do you think we’re at the point where artificial intelligence has gone from an emerging technology to something with far-reaching applications for all businesses today?
Gregg: Yeah, without a doubt. I think voice is just becoming critically important and AI is enabling that to happen, and contributing to that as well. I think to be a good business leader, one of the things you need to do is sort of monitor and understand technology adoption in the world around you. I’ll tell you on a very personal level, one of the things that really impacted me in my decision to come to Invoca. I’ve been at the company a single year. I’ve got three kids and the first one was born in 2006 the year before the iPhone came out. And I look at him today and his favorite things to do, he loves to read books. He loves to draw and loves to play outside, he spends a little bit of time on the phone, but not a lot.
My second child was born in 2008, the year after the iPhone came out. He loves the phone. He plays Minecraft. He builds these amazing things, he’s interested in all these games that I’ve never even heard of. I think of him as he’s part of like the mobile phone generation, and then we had a third child who was born in late 2013 and he, you know, the little guy just started speaking incomprehensible sentences just last year when he was kind of two and a half, three years old. But ironically it was right around the same time that we had put three Amazon Alexa, and Echo devices in our house, and it really struck me because as he learned to talk. He almost immediately began to mimic our voice command.
And so I think of him as part of the voice generation, because he will walk into our living room. And his funny little three and a half-year-old voice will say, “Alexa, turn off the living room lights.” So it’s just crazy the difference that AI has made possible in parsing and understanding voice and automating interactions with devices. And yeah, I think it’s completely transforming the world that we live in and how businesses are gonna work, just because it’s an enabling service to help you do what you do today, but to do it better and to do it more efficient really in search, but I think it’s a critical thing to think about how to build your business.
Skip: Well, let me ask you this context question. Is AI still primarily a play for enterprise companies? Those with say a thousand or more employees or is it also becoming more accessible for small and midsized businesses?
Gregg: No. I think it’s accessible to everyone and that’s the great thing about technology. It’s not about how big your company is or how small your company is. It’s about understanding what your customers want and what they need. What’s your mindset? How flexible and how group oriented are you? And your willingness to embrace change? And so I think about my career in technology, some of the most advanced users of technology I’ve ever seen are companies with less than a hundred employees, because those companies have embraced technology as a strategic differentiator, ultimately in terms of what they’re doing. And I’ll tell you, as we think about our products and what we build, we try to democratize the complex advanced technology that we have and make it available to everyone.
Skip: Oh, perfect. It’s such an exciting time that we live in for that very reason. Gregg, in the article there was a story that you shared that you wrote about a major hotel chain and its online search ad campaign. Can you share that story with our readers and provide a little bit of background and maybe a little extra color commentary for us?
Gregg: Yeah, exactly. So if you think about, you know, most hotels today, what they are focused on is much more than getting you a bed to sleep in at night. They’re thinking about the entire experience. What are you gonna eat, what else can you do recreationally when you’re on site? And so this is a customer of ours who spent a lot of money in paid search. And one of their resorts had a very, very well named golf course. And, you know, I grew up playing golf. So certainly if I’m picking a place to go on vacation, if there’s a famous golf course that I can easily go play early in the morning or late in the afternoon between doing stuff with my family. That’s a motivational factor for me when I think about where I want to stay and what I want to do.
Gregg: The challenge was at this hotel, they were spending a lot of money on paid search and they had a lot of people come through to their ads and maybe look at their landing pages, but they weren’t getting those digital bookings that they expected and they couldn’t understand why. So they decided to be data-based, and data-oriented about it. They ran a test where they ran one ad that drove people to click and look at the landing page. They ran another ad where they drove people to call and offer them the ability to talk to somebody live, and book a room. And what they found is that a lot of golfers were really interested in staying at this resort because they wanted to play at the golf course. But they were worried they couldn’t actually book a tee time.
So for them it had gone from not just, you know, what room do I want and how big do I want a bed? Do I want a queen or a king? Their purchase decision was dependent on a more complex factor which was if I’m staying on a Tuesday night because I need to be there for a business meeting, can I get a tee time on a Wednesday morning? Because if so, I’d love to stay, but if I don’t, I’m not gonna do that. And so the fact that, you know, that purchase considered decision was a little bit more complex than the hotel realized that came out through the voice conversations and then they were able to really go back and optimize what they were doing both on the phone and offline. They can go back to their online reservation systems and add in some digital capabilities that you’re gonna see if you have a tee time available, but it was only through understanding the conversations around what were motivating people to stay at their hotel through discussions with a human being that they were able to uncover that insight.
Skip: Gregg, awesome, awesome story. And what a powerful business lesson that we can all pull from that. Thanks for sharing that with us. I wanna ask you a final question about Invoca and what you do with the voice recognition, artificial intelligence. From your perspective, what are some of the most opportune, best fitting applications for voice intelligence technologies like yours today?
Gregg: Yeah, I think there are a number of different ones, and if you think about a business, a business has so many different interactions with humans through voice communications, and there are so many technologies that ourselves and other people in our industry are taking advantage of to try to make it easier and faster and more cost-effective for a business to interact with their customers using voice as a channel. So a lot of the things that we focus on tend to be oriented around sales and marketing. How you discover and get to know customers. There are lots of interesting use cases around customer service. People have gone from, you know, we’ve all grown up with interactive voice response, IVRs, where you punched in certain numbers if you wanted to check your bank balance. And a lot of companies doing really interesting things now, those are all voice activated, you no longer have to push, you know, your social security number or your account number on your phone, you can just speak it out loud.
There are lots of technologies around automating interactions that you see through home assistant devices. And so I think we’re just in the midst of a really transformational time in technology right now around artificial intelligence, around voice where all these things are becoming possible that you’d only see in Hollywood movies like, “Minority Report” 10 or 15 years ago. So I think the window is wider, thanks a lot to this new innovation.
Skip: Fantastic. Gregg, I’ve learned so much today. Thank you for a rich and truly fascinating conversation. Before I let you get away, I wanna ask you the question that I ask every guest at the end of a show. And that’s this question. What do you do to get away from technology? What’s your favorite way to unplug and relax?
Gregg: Well, you know, it’s funny. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and when you live, you know, anywhere in the modern world today, but most, especially in Silicon Valley, it’s really hard to get away from technology. And so having a family and trying to spend them, is really important to me, especially as much time as I spend on the road. I think one of the things for me has definitely been a focus on how I kinda take back control of my life when it comes to technology. I was really impressed by an article that I saw about nine months ago. I did a special on 60 minutes early in 2017. There was an engineer who used to work at Google, an individual named Tristan Harris. And one of the things that he realized in his time working at Google is that all the engineering horsepower that is available in technology today, a lot of people are focused on, how do you drive more engagement and more interaction with people who are using your product and service?
And one of the challenges about it is it sets up this whole system where technology is trying to essentially consume as much of your time as they possibly can on behalf of different actors. And he’s advocated for a more ethically driven approach to designing software. But even at a more granular level, he had a bunch of tips and tricks on how you can take better control of how you use technology every day.
Gregg: So I took a couple of the recommendations that he suggested. I’ll give you a few. One of them was, you know, I think everybody has times in their personal life or in their work life where we tend to procrastinate, right? We’re not getting the things done that we need to get done because we’re kinda goofing around.
Gregg: And social media is where we spend a lot of that time today sort of start flipping through Twitter or Facebook and the next thing you know you’ve spent 35 minutes, you know, reading about something, it was interesting but you might not have thought you were gonna spend your time in it.
And so his suggestion was, hey, take all those applications, turn off your push notification. So you’re looking at them when you choose to look at them deliberately as opposed to when you’re interrupted, prompted you to looking at them. And then also move them a couple swipes over on your phone, right? Like being… His point was being very mindful about what applications on your phone, or in that prime real estate of your bottom doc, if you use your iPhone or your top three or four apps that’s top of your phone. And I was really amazed when I did that literally within a week, the amount of time that I was spending sort of aimlessly scrolling through Twitter or reading about interesting things. It diminished very quickly. You could see the causal impact, like the correlation was that clear. And so now what I try to do is I try to be purposeful about what apps I keep on my home screen.
I keep my calendar, I keep my task management productivity app. I keep my work focus communications app, and that’s helped me really focus the time that I need to getting what I need to get done, so that when I come back from being on the road or when I get home on Friday afternoon, Friday night, after, you know, a long week at the office, I can focus my time on, you know, the most important things in life, which is your well-being, your family, your friends. And I was really amazed at how those fairly small little changes had a, you know, a remarkable impact on my life in the sense of really I can see from week one how I did. So that for me was a big help because ultimately I love to take advantage of the great outdoors that we have in California. My kids are all really active. I love to spend time with them. And I love technology, but it’s about finding ways to harness technology to achieve what I wanna achieve and aligning that to what’s best for us as humans in life.
Skip: Indeed, indeed. Superb answer Gregg. Gaining time back, you’ve learned it here today on “Gain Your Edge.” So we’re gonna help you gain back some time. Thanks to Gregg. Gregg, thank you very much for taking time to talk to us today about why the human voice is more important than ever in the customer journey.
Gregg: Oh, thanks, Skip. Really appreciate it, enjoyed the conversation and thank you to you and Frontier for having me.
Skip: Well, as soon as we wrap up, I’m going reconfigure some apps on my Smartphone and move ’em over to the right. Thanks a lot.
Gregg: All right. Take care.
Skip: That’s all the time we had today. Download this podcast at frontier.com/gainyouredge. You can also find all of our podcasts on iTunes. I encourage you to download and share, “Gain Your Edge” podcast with your colleagues, with other business leaders who can learn from and benefit from the lessons provided by our guest gurus like Gregg Johnson here today. Please join me, Skip Lineberg, next time on, “Gain Your Edge” and until then, have a great week.